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. catholics seem to just let that go by and say i -- catholics in the u.s., catholics that i speak to, i was raised catholic, think that, well, that's just sort of par for the course. do you think that reform is on the horizon for the church in any sense of the word? >> well, first of all, i don't think you should feel anti-catholic for making that comparison with the republican party. i was talking a couple of weeks ago to an important bishop here in the u.s. who made the same alan judging who said we, the catholic church -- we in the catholic church have to think about the extent to which we are growing out of touch with some of our membership. we have to be open to reform. having said that, i think when you look at the very nature of the college of cardinals, i mean, this is in the technical sense of the term a kind of self-perpetuating leadership. virtually all these cardinals who are picked either by pope benedict or by pope john paul, i believe, somebody correct me if i'm wrong, the average age is somewhere in the 70s, low 70s. there aren't if to really drive your metaphor into the
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